Kearney Kids Parenting Show
First Baptist Church Kearney’s very own Minister of Children, Abraham Leonard, interviews pastors and authors on the subject of parenting, seeking to learn from their insights. We hope and pray that this resource is transformative for your parenting!
Kearney Kids Parenting Show
Parenting: Justin Perry
Abraham Leonard, Minister of Children at First Baptist Church Kearney, interviews Pastor Justin Perry about parenting. Justin shares his wonderful, educated insights with the world.
Hello,
SPEAKER_00:welcome to the Kearney Kids Parenting Show. I am your host, Abraham Leonard, Minister of Children at First Baptist Church Kearney. I am so glad that you have joined us. Welcome to the show, Pastor Justin Perry, coming at us all the way from Viburnum, Missouri. How are you? I'm doing great. Good to see you, Abraham. Yeah, it's good to see you. Could you tell us just a little bit about your family, your ministry, and just how you're doing?
SPEAKER_02:Sure. So, like I said, my name is Justin Perry. I'm pastor at First Baptist Church in Viburnum, Missouri, down here in southeast Missouri. about two hours south of St. Louis, two hours north of Springfield. And I've been the pastor here for 13 years. And when I moved here, Jennifer and I, well, Jennifer and I just celebrated our 15th wedding anniversary at the end of May. And when we moved here, We didn't have any kids, but now we have two, and so Selah and Major. Selah's my oldest, and Major's my youngest, so 12 and 9, and we've just enjoyed a really good time. really good ministry here. Kids are in the throes of all the summer sports and things that are happening. So open gyms and baseball and softball, playing some rec leagues and then junior high basketball stuff and volleyball stuff for Selah. So it's a good time. And then we've got Love Thy Neighbor starting next week. And so that's our week-long local missions week here in our community. And so We're excited about that and getting all geared up for it.
SPEAKER_00:That's awesome. Good to see that everything's doing okay. I was just doing a podcast interview with my dad and he was talking about all the stuff with Josiah and his open gyms and stuff. It's a chaotic time for families with with ballplayers. Oh, yeah. Do you have any good parenting memories? Maybe just tell us a couple of your favorite parenting memories.
SPEAKER_02:Parenting memories. So, I actually had... We were sitting at the ball field last night and Major was sitting next to me and I said, what are some of your favorite memories of just he and I? And Uh, the one that he pointed out was, um, last year, uh, we had a family vacation. We all went, all the Perry's went to Florida. And one of the days we went and played, um, we went and played golf and my kids have played golf with us since they were very, very young. And, um, and so they've, they've enjoyed that. playing and just being a part, you know, we, we have a little nine hole golf course here in town. And so we would go sometimes after dinner, just play a couple of holes. And they, I think they enjoyed playing in the sand traps more than they did, you know, the golf, but, um, they did play and they can play and it's, it's fun to watch. Uh, but what struck me about that was, um, he, he said we were, we were wearing matching polos and, um, And, and we did, and we were, we were wearing matching polos. We bought, I bought them on purpose because, um, I thought it'd be cute and fun. And, um, but he, he, he remembered that. And, um, and I, I, that, that struck me. Uh, of course he also wears polos, you know, whether it's Sunday mornings or some other times. And in the last couple of years, um, he started, uh, copy an old dad, uh, much to his mother's, uh, chagrin. But, um, I, I, I, I thought about that on the way home last night and I, and I thought, you know, that memory didn't stand out to me. Um, but it stood out to him because, and this is the conclusion I came to. He wanted to be like his dad. He wanted to play golf. He wanted to wear the same shirt as dad.
UNKNOWN:Um,
SPEAKER_02:He wanted to pop his collar like dad. He wanted to be like dad. So that was Major's favorite parenting memory. Some of my greatest memories are, and I have many, but they're around things that we've done together as a family. And so every year we take a family picture at Love Thy Neighbor. uh, with us all wearing the same shirt, you know, standing there and it's the four of us. Um, and it's a reminder that, um, you know, as for me and my house, we're going to serve the Lord and we do it together. Uh, and so that's, that's fun. Uh, I love that. And of course now they're getting old enough that they can actually work and, and do some of the things with us. Um, and then, you know, the major, uh, Killed his first turkey this year. That was exciting. Of course, I was there when the kids killed their first deer. And some of those memories will stay with me forever, recovering those animals and all the things go along with that. And then also having the privilege of being able to baptize both my kids. I'll never forget those things. And it was a reminder of when dad baptized me. I remembered the significance of, you know, in obedience to the command of our Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ, on your public profession of faith in him, I baptize you, my brother. And as a eight, seven, eight year old, I'm standing there in the baptistry and I'm like, but you're my dad. But now we're brothers. And then doing that with my own children, I'm sure they did not understand the emotion in my voice as much as maybe they just thought that this was a significant moment that I was very proud of them, of which it was and of which I am. But standing there and saying, I baptize you, my sister, I baptize you, my brother. It changed things in our relationship, but also in just the way I see all of life. Those things stick with you.
SPEAKER_00:Those are some really good parenting memories. Now to something a little bit harder. Could you tell us about maybe some hard times that you've had as a parent and how you've overcame them? sure um
SPEAKER_02:the reality is is that raising children is not easy um and i think every parent knows that but they're never quite prepared for to what extent it's going to be difficult um You know, both of my kids are what I would consider to be good kids. They are, you know, for all intents and purposes, everyone would see them as kids that you would want to be friends with your kids, you know, things like that. But that doesn't mean that they're not without hardship and difficulty in raising them. And there were always times where, so Jennifer and I referred to them as the dark days. And I know that that's a little dramatic, but when a child, especially in those toddler years, in those kind of pre-K years where their verbal skills outweigh their, and are more developed than their emotional skills. And so you have an emotional little human that you are dealing with. And they have no idea how to really control that, what's appropriate with regard to that. And so those were very frustrating times when one of our kids would be so overly emotional that they could not be able to function or listen or to follow commands. And it was very frustrating because to an adult, it's like, this is very logical. I said, do this thing. And so I need you to do this thing. And there was just this disconnect. And then the emotion would come. And then now my emotion would go with it. And so that was kind of the early on that was difficult. Um, and it was, it was harder than maybe I've, I've let on, um, at least to you at this moment, but, uh, and I, and I remember one particular time major was just throwing a fit and, and I remember sitting in the floor with him and just holding him down and there was, and he was fighting me and he was screaming and he was crying and, And I remember thinking, how am I going to do this forever? Because I knew I couldn't. Yeah. And finally, he started to calm down a little bit. And it was enough for me to be able to at least reason with him to some degree. And that finally broke. And we were able to move on. Of course, he was very young. But I remember thinking like, how am I going to be able to hold him down like this forever? And that was very difficult. There have been several instances as they've gotten a little bit older where the difficulty has now changed. So not only are we Christians, not only are my children believers and Christians, But we're a ministry family. They're pastor's kids. I'm a pastor. I'm a leader. And so there are, it's not fair to say that there's a different set of rules, but there are a different set of expectations. And so we live in a way that is different than other people live. And that's difficult for a young person. trying to reconcile, you know, well, why can't I have this thing? Or why don't we do this thing? Or why are they allowed to, but I'm not allowed to? And so, you know, like with my oldest, she doesn't have a phone. And in our day and age, most 12-year-olds have a phone. She doesn't. And she's not going to. And so having to have that conversation with her, like, hey, look, I know all your friends are going to have one. They're going to tell you that it's really fun. It's really great. And that I'm a bad person for not allowing you to have one. But I need you to know that your mom and I have made this decision because we want to protect you. It's not because we don't trust you. It's because the that we believe that this is not something that will be healthy for you to have. And so. We found some ways around it, some really unique and creative ways that we've been able to utilize technology to be able to give her access to be able to text me, call me, you know, her mom, grandparents and some select few people that we've been able to do that without having a phone. And so, you know, they don't have unfettered access to the Internet. And so that was difficult. She's very mature. Sheila's very mature. She's she gets it. She's fine. She's like, you know, whatever. I don't care. Now, I don't think it's going to be that easy with Major, but we'll see. Hopefully that goes well. But there was another particularly difficult moment where I had... And he responded so well to it, and I was just very proud of him, that I had to make a very particularly difficult decision. And I knew that that decision was going to affect... a family that had a child that was the same age as him. And, and that there would, because of the nature of the situation that that other adult would likely influence their child to maybe take it out on my child. And so I had to, and I knew that this would likely happen. And so I had the ability to be able to, um, kind of brief him on it beforehand. And so I was able to do that. And so this is what I told him. I said, first of all, I want you to know that I don't ever need you to defend me. And I said, I know that you love me and you know that I love you. And there's nothing that's going to change that. And no matter what anyone says, that's not going to change. And, you know, of course he's like, what's going on? You know, he doesn't really understand the significance of it. Um, but I said, sometimes your dad has to make difficult decisions and it hurts me to know that those decisions may somehow affect you and that someone may come to you and tell you how terrible of a person I am. I said, okay, you're going to be angry when that happens, but I need you to do something for me. And, and I need you to simply look at that person and say, my dad has to make a lot of difficult decisions. And I'm sure that was one of them. And then that's it. And we rehearsed it. We practiced it. And, uh, he came home from school the next day and he said, It happened. I said, well, how'd it go? He said, it was fine. I said, what'd you say? And he said, I told him, my dad has to make a lot of hard decisions, and I'm sure that was one of them. And I said, what happened after that? He said, they walked away. And a couple days went by, and I said, hey, how's it going at school? Is everything okay with so-and-so? And they're like, yeah, everything's fine. I was like, good, good. And so it, but as a parent, it was very difficult for me to even have to have a conversation with my nine-year-old that says something that I have done, I believe is going to affect you. Now, I wouldn't change what I did, but now you have to do something differently than you would normally because of what I had done. And that hurt me. But I was grateful that he listened and I was grateful that he was understanding. And even though he later on did find out some of the details of what was going on, it didn't change anything. And I hope that later on, if that situation ever arises again, that he will now have the background to be able to say, hey, My dad has to make a lot of hard decisions, and I'm sure that was one. And not have to defend me. Don't have to fight for my honor. You don't have to come to my rescue. It's all good. And this is the way you're going to handle it when that type of thing happens.
SPEAKER_00:That's really good. Some good examples of hard times that you had to go through as a parent and that you overcame very well and pastorally, it sounds like. And so... I think that'll be helpful for the people listening. If you're going to go back in time to before you had a kid, but you're about to have a kid, you're about to become a father and you're going to give yourself parenting advice, what would it be?
SPEAKER_02:So you sent me that question and I thought about it because... And so here's my answer. It's kind of twofold. One, I would not... changed much because I had got some of what I believe is some of the best advice I ever, I could have ever received. And I remember sitting in, Jennifer and I were newly married. We were sitting at church when we were in, when I was in seminary in Louisville and we were just sitting there in church one day and the pastor was preaching from first Samuel. And it was with regard to Samuel and his sons, Eli and Cochran. Eli's sons, Hophni and Phineas. And he, he made the statement, um, because Hophni and Phineas are, are terrible examples. They're bad sons. They're sinful. They are what, and the way that Eli parents them, um, leads to all of their destruction. Yeah. And so it's a terrible example, but he, but he, he made this statement and, and I'm going to try to, make sure I get it right. Uh, but he said with the same degree that you require your children to listen to your voice will be to the same degree that they have a chance to listen to the voice of God. And I looked at Jennifer and I was like, that's huge. That is, That is massive. And so what that told me was that for Jennifer and I, our parenting was going to be a reverse or it was going to be a triangle with regard to the way that we give our kids choices, the way that we allow for freedom. And so at the very beginning, when they are early on in their lives, they're going to have no choices. They're going to have no freedom. They are going to, everything is going to be done for them. Those choices are going to be made for them. And their lives are going to, from the outside perspective, have very little freedom.
SPEAKER_01:And
SPEAKER_02:as they grow and they develop and they mature, then they will be allowed to have more choices, more freedom, and more ability to exert their own individualism. So that when they are young, they are listening to my voice and my voice only. And by my, I mean Jennifer and I. And then as they grow older, then we will allow for more voices to be included in their lives. Knowing that we've built a foundation of them listening to us so that one day we hope that when all of the choices are theirs and all of the freedom is theirs, that they will choose to listen to God's voice. And so that advice was huge. for us in the very beginning. And it, and it guided everything that we have done and are doing right now. Um, and so that gives me great confidence moving forward as our kids grow and as they develop and as they kind of hit milestones and do different things, but Hey, Hey, this is part of that. I got to let them because we've, we've done what we, we believe we should do. The other one's a little bit, I learned later on, um, whenever I was here at, uh, my burn, great, great friend of ours, uh, Um, cause I was always, I was very, very particular about things. And so, um, I liked, um, you know, they, they would do art and they would do all this stuff and there would be this giant mess. And so that Jennifer always had paints and colors and markers and stickers and paper and all this stuff. And we still have this, this kind of art center. We call it the art center in, uh, in Plato and Jennifer's school teachers, she would make her own Plato. And, you know, we always had Plato everywhere and paints and all that stuff always out. And it always frustrated me whenever they would take their paints and they would, they all had, you know, the little container that you can put a little bit of red, a little bit of yellow, a little bit of blue, and you just squirt little bits in there. And they would take all that and they just mix it all together. And it just was like, oh my goodness, why are you doing that? And it frustrated me. And then the same thing with the Play-Doh. You know, you have your green Play-Doh, your blue Play-Doh, your green Play-Doh, and you have all these different colors and they have their own separate bag or they have their own little container. And when you get one out, you play with that one. And then when you're done with that one, you put it back in the container and you get a new one out and you play with that color. And they would take those different ones and they'd open them all up and they'd squish them together. And it just, it was like, you ruined it. And I'll never forget, he made the comment to me, he said, and this was a metaphor for parenting. And he said, what does it matter if they mix the Play-Doh together? And at the end of the day, I was like, it doesn't matter. It doesn't matter. Cause you know what? They're going to put it all in a bag and tomorrow they're going to get it out and they're going to play with the mixed up Toledo. They don't care. It didn't bother them. It only bothered me. And, and so that was, that was one. The other was same guy. And he, he made the comment to me and this was, he was making comment of his own life is that, when his kids would ask him early on so he had two children and then there was a pretty big gap and then they had the third child and um he said that with the first two he he looked back on that and he said the the kids would come to him and they would ask dad what can you play with us and he would you know often play with them or or things but there would be times where he would say no And it would be because he had a long day or he had just gotten home or he had other chores to do or things like that. And so when his third child came around, he realized that him saying no was him saying, my life is more important than your life. And so... he encouraged me that when your kids ask you to go play, stop what you're doing and go play. Because at that point you're telling them my life, I'm willing to set aside my life for your life. And they're not going to see it when they're five, six, seven, eight, nine, 10, 12 years old, but they will see it when they're 25 and 30 and 35 years old. that dad set aside his life for my life. And, um, and that stuck with me. So when the kids say, dad, will you catch me while I pitch? You betcha. Stop what I'm doing. I'm going to go, I'm going to go play catch. Um, dad, can you come watch me? I'm going to, I'm going to do this thing. Yep. I'll come watch. Um, I mean, I always want to, in fact, most of the time I don't want to, um, I'm tired or I just got in or I just sat down or I just finished dinner and I don't really want to. But I try and I will go and I will do. So those are those pieces of advice. Those last two, I wish I maybe would have known a little bit sooner, but I did catch them pretty early on. And then the first one I knew very early on, even before we had kids. And I'm so thankful that I had those pieces of advice.
SPEAKER_00:Those are really good pieces of advice. I want to end on a little bit lighter note. Do you have maybe your favorite or a couple of your favorite funny parenting stories?
SPEAKER_02:Yes. So I had to go back and find this one because I remember I think I posted it on Facebook and I don't remember what the date was. I don't know if the date's even on here. It was back from 2017. So when the kids were, were young, Jennifer started, when they would go to bed, we would always, we would read. And so she would read to them and then we would pray or, or we would sing. And oftentimes it was just, you know, nursery rhymes, that type of thing, you know? And, and so we, we always sang and always read and, and, because of that, there was just a pattern that has continued really. I mean, we didn't stop singing to our kids. So, you know, just several years ago. So they've been, sung to and read to for forever. But, you know, after you've read all the children's books you can read and, you know, as our kids got a little bit older, we, you know, we began to read Bible stories and, and different devotional books and different things like that as they, as they got a little older. And one particular night we, And then sometimes whenever I had done all of that and whatever, they would say, well, tell me a story. And I would tell them some crazy story about, you know, my grandpa or about, you know, my dad or, you know, some, some, because they, they had crazy stories and I just, I always loved to retell them. Uh, but, uh, one particular night I was, I was reading, I was reading a Bible story out of a book to, to Selah. And so that I'll read you the post because it is, it was pretty funny. And so, uh, It says, well, telling Selah's story of Jesus and Peter walking on the water and then discussing the practical importance of fixing our eyes on Jesus, no matter our circumstances. She stopped me mid-bedtime sermon and says, well, if Peter was wearing a swimsuit and his floaties, he could have just swam back to the boat. And I thought, well played, tiny human. Well played. And I thought about that and just looking back on that and going, here's this little girl who's listening to her dad tell a story out of the Bible. And she's thinking about it. She's thinking about it.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:And there Peter is. And you could talk about all the theological implications of Peter's lack of faith and the fact that he didn't have his eyes fixed on Jesus. And when he got out of the boat, fear overcame him and he began to sink. And Jesus was using this as a seminal moment to teach him about all these wonderful things. And in her mind, all she was thinking was, well, if he'd have been wearing his swimsuit and his floaties, then he could have just swam back to the boat. And it was like... Yeah, you're right. You're right. If he had his swim trunks on and he'd have been wearing his floaties, they would have been just fine. And I thought about how funny that was in the moment and just the fact that she was thinking about all those things and never even crossed my mind. The other one was with Major. We had gone deer hunting down at our family farm and he had shot a doe. And I watched that doe. I thought I couldn't really tell how good a shot he had made on that doe. And she ran down through a creek and then up the other side. And I thought I heard her go down. But I also knew that this creek was very deep and the banks were very tall. And so, you know, we're talking about 20 foot banks that would have really made for a it's a tough hike to get down and to get back up and then to drive a beer. Man, it was going to be tough.
SPEAKER_01:So
SPEAKER_02:I wasn't real thrilled about it. And so the fact that it may have been a questionable shot was also not real exciting. But we got to the other side of the bank where I saw her go up and I saw the beginning of the blood trail. And so now I'm like, okay, dad moment. Hey, let's you track your own deer. And so he's maybe seven years old, no more than, 48 inches tall. I mean, he's little. And, uh, and so I'm standing behind him and he is crouched over looking down at the ground, looking down at the ground and getting excited. Oh, there's blood there. There's blood there. There's blood there. And he's just kind of picking his way through the woods, picking his way through the woods. And it's not my first time. And so I look up and I immediately see the deer. just around the corner by a tree. He has no idea this deer is there. And he's just looking at the blood and following the trip. And I keep thinking, he's going to see this deer any minute. He's going to trip over. And so I start videotaping him because I know at some point he's going to, it's going to be an aha moment. He's going to realize what has happened. And it's going to hit him. And he gets to, I mean, he has to step over the leg of the deer before he stands there. And I stop him and I'm like, hey, look behind you. And he turns around and was like the surprise on his eyes was like, Oh my goodness. And he, uh, and he realizes that there, there it was. And I just, I, I'll, I'll never forget that, that track job, you know, cause he, and then he, he even mentioned it to me last night when I was telling him that I was going to be talking to you about some of this stuff. And he, uh, he's like, Oh, you remember that time? I was tripped over the deer. I was like, yeah, I do remember that.
SPEAKER_00:Uh, that was, uh, that was a good one. That's a pretty funny story. A good note to end on. On behalf of all the listeners and myself, I want to thank you for being on the show today.
SPEAKER_02:Thank you, Abraham, for having me.
SPEAKER_00:Thank you for joining me. I hope this was an encouragement to you. Please follow the show, leave a review, and share it with the people around you.